The Casino Issue

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Total Votes : 18

Re: The Casino Issue

Post by KevinNSaisi on Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:29 pm

Chuck wrote:My guess is that a large chunk of the money budgeted for economic development is eventually going to be looked at to pay for costs like this. I’m also guessing that was Mark’s and the TRR group’s plan from the beginning about that money. They are a plotting group. Time will tell. We all should watch this one. Rolling Eyes


Gee, another accusation. Is this the Rumford Reporter??

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by xmashen on Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:38 pm

this is HARDLY the Rumford Reporter or we would have a picture of JSN smilingly watering her garden as a "rumford citizen" and a few ridiculous anti-obama links on the side.

The fact that ANYONE can post here successfully illustrates one of the main differences between a real community blog and a self-centered rant.

And Kevin, if you have TRULY left TRR behind, as you made pains to point out previously (although i have my doubts), you would know and admit that "accusations" (along with nasty innuendo) are their game. This is an open forum that has a lot of well-balanced and thoughtful entries. I don't see any of them being " accusatory" as much as informative and questioning.

As long as TRR and TLR continue to post their trash, it's important for people to speak up truthfully.

People posting here are questioning a lot of the garbage out there, and doing so in an honest way. From what I can tell, there is no common political agenda here, just a wish to communicate openly.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by KevinNSaisi on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:59 pm

No political agenda??? Now who is kidding?

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by KevinNSaisi on Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:58 pm

xmashen wrote:
And Kevin, if you have TRULY left TRR behind, as you made pains to point out previously (although i have my doubts), you would know and admit that "accusations" (along with nasty innuendo) are their game. This is an open forum that has a lot of well-balanced and thoughtful entries. I don't see any of them being " accusatory" as much as informative and questioning.

I handed over the River Valley Reporter to Jennifer Stowell-Norris and was immediatly locked out. I couldn't post on there if I wanted to. You may have noticed that she unexpectedly lost access to the Rivervalleyreporter.com domain. When she locked me out and started going "Rush Limbaugh" on everyone, this is one of the steps I took to distance myself from her. I assure you that I have nothing to do with TRR. In fact, I have backed out of most aspects of political involvement. I still share thoughts with Len and the board members, and still post on this site, but that is the extent of my involvement. Some here would like to see me disappear completely, but that isn't going to happen. I make an effort to post factual information, without making false statements or accusations (including innuendo or implications). If I have a question about something or someone, I go to the source and ask rather than posting a leading question on a public forum. I find it good practice to do so to keep from developing hostile feelings among my fellow citizens. The nonsense I see here is just political shenanigans.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by C on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:46 pm

Okay Kevin. please enlighten me to what political agenda is being pursued here on this forum. I encourage you to post on here but it seems any questions being asked by myself and others are deemed by you as accusations or innuendos why are all these questions putting you on the defensive? This is simply the give and take of thoughts and ideas. Any implications may be caused by the actions or behavior of the subject at hand not simply because someone chose to call attention to it. Are you suggesting we ignore any subjects or actions that aren't all roses and sunshine? Leading questions are usually a precursor to intelligent debate and conversation. I see this forum as a place where political questions can and should be raised. You must admit, regarding the casino issue many puzzle pieces and players are now falling into place. My predictions and suspicions regarding much of the goings on regarding town politics and the casino are remarkably on cue and I'm certainly not the only one in town who can do research and put the players and the pieces together.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by T on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:31 pm

KevinNSaisi wrote:No political agenda??? Now who is kidding?

He said "common" political agenda.

You are assuming when you should be thinking.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by KevinNSaisi on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:26 am

Anyone who doesn't see a common political agenda is in denial. The majority of the posts on this site are geared toward the goal of exposing every little flaw that exists or is perceived to exist in the personality, character or actions of three people. It is in retaliation for the removal by the voters in the past two elections of those the posters supported . While it was perceived that the same was done to the now former members of the board, there is a big difference. The issues raised about the former board members were based upon their performance in their positions, not slander and innuendo about them personally. They were making sufficient "mistakes" on a regular basis. There was a blatent disregard for the rules, even after they were informed that their actions were in violation. The current retribution in the form of personal attacks and character assassination by cowards hiding in the shadows of anonymity is shameful and an embarassment to our town. Say what you want, most of the criticisms made against previous board members for their actions were done by people who took responsibility for what they said.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by T on Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:21 am

Mr. Saisi, your perception is not necessarily reality. Of course, you are entitled to your perception.

You seem fixated on knowing the identity of every poster. You use the words "cowards", “hiding”, “shameful”, “embarrassment” describing anonymous posters on a semi-regular basis. To you, the identity of the poster is paramount. But, demanding to know a poster’s identity is nothing more than a tactic to avoid engaging in the free exchange of ideas. If "we" don't play by your rules, you'll take your ideas and go home. Until we conform, you’ll continue to name-call. This is the same position as The Rumford Reporter group. You may have been "locked out" of The Rumford Reporter website, but your values are in-line with theirs.

I have little or no interest in Mr. Boivin, Mr. DiConzo, or Mr. Belanger. My interests lie in, but are not limited to, our Constitutional rights, the rights of the worker, and correcting misinformation.

BTW… Mr. Saisi, no one is perfect. Occasionally I slip up and need to be reminded to stay focused on the issue at hand. From what I have seen from most of the people who post here and at The Rumford Free Press, they are willing to meet each other halfway, correct their own behavior, listen to each other and compromise. And they do this without knowing each other’s identity.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by KevinNSaisi on Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:58 pm

T wrote:Mr. Saisi, your perception is not necessarily reality. Of course, you are entitled to your perception.

You seem fixated on knowing the identity of every poster. You use the words "cowards", “hiding”, “shameful”, “embarrassment” describing anonymous posters on a semi-regular basis. To you, the identity of the poster is paramount. But, demanding to know a poster’s identity is nothing more than a tactic to avoid engaging in the free exchange of ideas. If "we" don't play by your rules, you'll take your ideas and go home. Until we conform, you’ll continue to name-call. This is the same position as The Rumford Reporter group. You may have been "locked out" of The Rumford Reporter website, but your values are in-line with theirs.

I have little or no interest in Mr. Boivin, Mr. DiConzo, or Mr. Belanger. My interests lie in, but are not limited to, our Constitutional rights, the rights of the worker, and correcting misinformation.

BTW… Mr. Saisi, no one is perfect. Occasionally I slip up and need to be reminded to stay focused on the issue at hand. From what I have seen from most of the people who post here and at The Rumford Free Press, they are willing to meet each other halfway, correct their own behavior, listen to each other and compromise. And they do this without knowing each other’s identity.

I don't say that people need to disclose who they are, I say that it is shameful to post accusations and other harmful information without having the courage to identify yourself.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by C on Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:10 pm

Back to the casino issue:

I can see so many benefits to having a casino in our community, especially if it sticks to the presentation Mr. Carey has been selling. River Valley would become a destination rather than a drive by with occassional out of town visitors. We would attract large name businesses along with an increase in available jobs and hopefully in residents. It could be a huge economic benefit. A casino also will bring much added expense to the operation of our town. Will the taxes paid by the casino support the additional staff for the police and fire department? Will the town receive any other payment from the casino besides what a normal property owner would pay? Will they supply their own water? If not how will it effect our reservoir? Will they help finance any needed road improvements needed to accomodate increased traffic? I hope it is planned in such a way that the benefits wouldn't be negated by an increase in taxes to support the new community needs induced by a casino.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by C on Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:12 pm

It would be nice if Seth Carey would pipe in on this thread to answer any of these questions. He might find some of the people here to be an additional resource for ideas.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by KevinNSaisi on Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:12 pm

The fact of the matter is that the vote in November is essentially based upon the concept of a casino. All of the terms and requirements can be changed by the state. If you support the concept of a casino in Oxford County, vote "yes", if not, vote "no".

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by C on Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:29 pm

If I support the concept that leaves many variables. Will we voting on it again? If the "concept" passes what does that mean? Does it mean that Carey's concept will be allowed or will other developers be vying for a casino?

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by KevinNSaisi on Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:12 pm

My understanding from having paid attention to the presentations is that once we vote on this in November, the appropriate committee at the state level will work out the kinks and make adjustments to the language. The way it is worded, Evergreen Mountain Enterprises will be the entity doing the development, but the actual financial partners are still unknown.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by Admin on Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:04 pm

Kevin,

Do you still work for Evergreen? I saw you were on their payroll on the PAC form at one point.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by KevinNSaisi on Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:41 am

I spent one evening helping Seth to prepare some paperwork that was due by midnight. That and collecting signatures one day at the polls is the extent of my connection with the Evergreen Mountain project.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by chef on Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:46 am

i am in favor of a casino in western me.
that said,here is my concern.
what will happen to the nonprofit groups in the area?
i know in the bangor area the nonprofits are loosing more than 30g's a year sience the slots moved in.
this was money raised from bingo,sealed tickets,etc.
most of the nonprofits in this area have a games of chance fund from wich they donate large amounts of money to local causes .what will happen to that? anyway,both pos and neg points in this issue. as for me i love the slots!

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by Admin on Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:00 pm

It appears the Rumford Selectmen would like your input before deciding if they should publicly support a Casino in Oxford County. The RFP has been contacted by Phil Blampied from the Rumford Economic Development Committee to post a link to a ballot. He requests that you print out the ballot that you will get as a PDF file when you click on the link, mark your vote and take it to the town office. I think the Town Manager staff will check your name as having voted when you drop off your ballot. Here's the link: http://www.growrumford.com/casinosurvey.pdf

Before you vote, we encourage all members of the town to be as educated as possible on this important issue that could drastically change our way of life in Oxford County. Here is information for you to consider from both sides of this complicated issue.

http://www.evergreenmountainresort.com

http://www.casinosno.com/info.php?info_id=1

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by C on Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:18 pm

Do you support the Rumford Board of Selectmen going on the record in favor of a yes vote in the Oxford County Casino referendum question, particularly if the casino were to be located in Rumford?

Yes or no is the only choice of answers. If I vote yes I get the impression I'm voting for it anywhere when I would only mean yes if
it were in the River Valley area or within a certain distance from Rumford... What are the expected results of the selectmen going on the record in favor of it? Are they truly all in favor of it?

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by kels on Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:47 am

The fact of the matter is that the vote in November is essentially based upon the concept of a casino. All of the terms and requirements can be changed by the state. If you support the concept of a casino in Oxford County, vote "yes", if not, vote "no".
I disagree with this statement; we will be asked to vote on something much more than a 'concept'. There is nothing abstract about the referendum regarding the casino. It defines the county location; requirements for licensing; minimum age of the gambler and finally but not limited to the amount of slot machine profits will go to the state and how that money will be mandated to be spent.
I've read these comments on this thread with interest as I believe it's an important issue beyond the Town of Rumford. I would also question Kevins statement regarding language being worked out or adjustments being made after we vote in Nov. What we are voting on in November if it receives a positive vote becomes law and changes would require something more than a committee.
I find there are many unanswered questions and alot of rumor and inaccurate information in the public domain. To be honest I don't find the Evergreen website very helpful. I am surprised that the BOS are asking for this survey rather than pressing for more information.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by Chuck on Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:10 pm

It seems quite clear that there are members of the board of selectmen, namely, Mark B, Frank D, and perhaps to some extent Arthur B, that have an agenda to support the Casino. They are going through the motions of making it look like they are looking for input from residents of the town. Don’t be fooled for a minute. The “ballot” that is being used is going to come out strongly favoring a casino. I also believe they have stacked the Economic Development Committee with Casino supporters and the real purpose of that committee is to support the Casino. Watch the $90,000 and how they attempt to use that!

You hit the nail on the head when you asked about why they are doing this instead of getting more info on the subject. Casino’s No have some interesting statistics about increased crime rates and social problems where Casino’s have come in. They also seem to write some pretty balanced stuff, such as Casino’s do bring some economic development into the area but it’s not all good. It will change the very culture of a town. I can’t help but believe that a big portion of the discord in town is because of the big money involved in the Casino issue. Big money tends to get people’s attention and causes them to attack others that they may feel threatened about.

There are a lot of unanswered questions about the Casino issue and the answers still aren’t forthcoming. We don’t even know the details of what we are voting on. It sounds like they are asking us to gamble with our money before they even plug in a slot machine.

One of the big things that bother me is Seth Carey’s reputation. He has not set himself up as a very stable and perhaps ethical individual with the legal and personal troubles he has been having in town. Can we really trust him to run a legal and ethical business such as this, particularly in a business that has been notorious for having ethical issues?

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by kels on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:39 pm

I agree Chuck, there are many unanswered questions. Seth Carey is also a big unknown. His ethics have been called into question by his own profession. There is no telling who is backing this proposal. According to the referendum, the licensee (operator) must be able to show substantial financial assets to cover the costs of the chapter which includes the initial $200,000 license fee and the $75,000 annual renewal. The operator must also show they have sufficient knowledge and experience in the business of operating...gaming facilities, or they must have a partner with that knowledge. It's clear that Seth does not meet the second criteria, I wouldn't hazard a guess about the first. So, who are his partners? Who will Oxford County be getting into bed with for at least 10 years?
I also agree with your assesment of the EDC. Why the town of Rumford is spending one dime on this endeavor before they know 1) if it will be located in the River Valley and 2) if it will even be passed by the voters is beyond me.
Also, does anyone know how Mr. Blampied and the BOS have circulated this survey? I've seen it on this and the TRR website. Is it anywhere else? Will attempts be made to mail it to residents? It seems to me if the selectman really wanted to know what their constituents think about the issue to determine their own course of action, they would not be relying on the volunteer efforts of the EDC for that information.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by steve on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:55 pm

One of the overriding questions to be answered is: Will the economic benefit of the casino outweigh the possible, detrimental effects of having such a facility in Oxford County. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that the Evergreen Casino is one-quarter the size and business volume of Foxwoods. The Foxwoods Casino contributes 25% of its slot machine revenue to the state of Connecticut. That percentage sum has been averaging $200 million per year, which means that the total slots revenue is $1.2 billion per year. I could not find any information about revenue totals for other casino games, but considering the betting minimums at table games, we could assume at least as much revenue as the slots. This would make Foxwood's total annual revenue about $2.4 billion.

[quote="kels"]
....There is nothing abstract about the referendum regarding the casino. It defines the county location; requirements for licensing; minimum age of the gambler and finally but not limited to the amount of slot machine profits will go to the state and how that money will be mandated to be spent....

Evergreen is proposing that a total of 40% of its gambling device , which includes the gross receipts from slots and all other games, will be contributed to the state of Maine and various other entities including Oxford County (2% and the host municipality (1%). Again, assuming Evergreen is one-quarter of Foxwoods, that equates to $12 million to the county and $6 million per year to the municipality. And those figures do not take into account the percentages set aside for infrastructure such as road improvements, etc. The county and local percentages would "buy" a sizeable amount of law enforcement and social services improvements beyond those already designated in the proposed referendum. Again , you must ask yourselves if it's worth it. I don't live there, so my opinion is worth exactly what it's costing you. However, I can speak for myself when I say that I moved away from my hometown because I didn't want to work in the mill, and there wasn't an abundance of other, good-paying jobs in the area. 'Nuff said.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by kels on Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:31 pm

Steve, I hear what your saying and concede that the revenue will not be limited to slot machines. Yes, we are talking potentially alot of money. What I'm saying is let's not be lured blindly into accepting this money without having all of the questions answered.

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Re: The Casino Issue

Post by Dave on Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:51 pm

Rumford is foolish if it thinks that a casino will help them out of their financial doldrums.

Kiss goodbye anyhope of revitalizing local businesses. People will drive to the casino and gamble. They'll eat at the casino, buy drinks at the casino, and (if they're lucky), buy gifts at the casino. Then they'll hop in their car and drive home. In fact, even the locals will likely go to the casino to eat at nicer restaurants, etc. than are offered locally.

It's a losing proposition, except for the owners. Don't be fooled.

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Re: The Casino Issue

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