Bethel Train wreck

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Z on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:17 pm

Ok, let's look at this. She had an expired registration and inspection sticker. Reason to pull her over. A check on her license showed and outstanding warrant. Now she gets arrested. She was handcuffed behind the back because I am sure that the police do that for everyone. They said that they "just followed 'the book'". "The book" is probably their procedures. These procedures were developed over time to protect the police officers and the individual they arrested. Did the police officers know Mrs. Kelton? How would they know if she has a violent nature or not? How would they know that she wouldn't try to hurt herself? Why should they treat her any different from anyone else they arrest? If they choose not to follow procedure for her, where do they draw the line? Policies and procedures are developed over time. They are there for a reason.

Here's a question. If it was a young black man, would it bother you so much that they handcuffed him behind his back?

If you say no, then you might be considered racist, sexist, or both.

If you say yes, then you are asking the police to forsake their safety and the safety of everyone involved.

Z

Number of posts : 334
Registration date : 2008-10-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Chuck on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:56 pm

Nice post Z. You nailed it.
avatar
Chuck

Number of posts : 73
Registration date : 2008-06-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Life is such.....

Post by Alexander Nevsky on Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:43 am





……… I get it. Z is right. One factor though, times ninety seven = Always
respect your elders. Procedure saves lives: life detail’s procedure. Choose a
procedure for life…………



avatar
Alexander Nevsky

Number of posts : 80
Registration date : 2008-09-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Timeout on Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:12 am

Yeah, I'm with silly to handcuff a 97 year old lady but I wasn't there. Maybe she popped one of the officers with her purse. It's a good thing though that Phil could find one example from 2004 to make his point...that proves it! Police are trying to take over the world...lol
avatar
Timeout

Number of posts : 829
Registration date : 2008-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by 911Dispatcher on Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:13 am

Ok folks this is getting a little ridiculous. Pushing aside that I don't know the circumstances, because I was not there, I'm still saying these officers made a stupid decision. Phil in case you are not aware, there are stupid people every where. They are in every profession know to man. Does that mean every police officer is...No. I know you chose this article because it stressed officers relying on policy and procedure to validate a stupid stuipid action. However here in a nutshell is the reason why this happens. Thanks to persons like TRR's favorite CopWatch group, police have to use caution. Lets use something from Z's post. Say they arrest a 20 year old black male for the same reasons. Lets say that officers have reliable information that this 20 year old is known to carry weapons and is a self proclaimed "cop killah". Policy and procedure is to handcuff, for obivious reasons and SOP's they handcuff him. No one blinks an eye. Now you have this sweet 97 year old lady in a good neighborhood (and I use 'good' in light terms because bad people are like stupid people...they are everywhere). Lets say the cops did not cuff her out of respect and well the obivious, shes not a threat. All of a sudden those officers are on the six o'clock news as racist, age descriminating po po thanks to a CopWatch member who video taped both incidents. A lawyer sees the broadcast and goes to his favorite local spot, the jail, and offers the 22 year old a dream deal. He will respresent him in civil court, sue the police department, and split the reward. Does this sound silly, yes. Does this happen, everyday. The good old nasty Phil, policy and procedures save lives, they also cover our ass. I also agree with Timeout, if you want to debate Phil...come at me with gusto, not one lonely article from 2004.

On a side note we've gotten distracted from our original reason for getting so wrapped up in this thread. Phil, you still said that officers who were doing a very difficult job were murderers, and I still say you were out of line.
avatar
911Dispatcher

Number of posts : 469
Registration date : 2008-10-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Phil Blampied on Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:28 am

Another isolated example which rarely happens

Two days after Independence Day, 70-year-old Betty Perry experienced an ordeal she said shouldn't be happening in America.
The retired military and U.S. government employee answered the door at her home Friday morning to talk with a police officer about her bone-dry lawn and ended up getting arrested and suffering a bloody nose.

"What have I done?" she asked. "I'm old now. I can't believe this."





The Orem police officer, as yet unnamed by city officials, cited Perry for violating a city ordinance with her "sadly neglected and dying landscape," which resembles dry hay.

When Perry refused to give her name and tried to walk inside to call her son, the officer tried to arrest her, police say. According to a police news release, while she was struggling, she tripped and fell on her doorstop, cutting open the bridge of her nose.

But Perry maintains the officer split her nose when he hit her with the set of handcuffs he was trying to restrain her with.

"As far as I'm concerned, he really abused me - he brutally abused me," Perry said. "For what?"
The officer called for backup, because he was driving a truck, and the now-handcuffed Perry was taken to a holding facility in Orem. She was not given water or allowed to wash her hands or call her son, she said.

Phil Blampied

Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-08-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Phil Blampied on Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:34 am

One more rare action by police just following orders
On the morning of June 22, at 8:45, Linda Walbridge and her husband, John, were driving to work. Mrs. Walbridge was behind the wheel. Her husband usually drove on the trip back home. They were on their way from their home in Bergenfield, N.J., to Columbia University, where Mrs. Walbridge was the assistant director of the Middle East Institute, and her husband worked as a Persian scholar.
Mrs. Walbridge recalls that on the approach to the George Washington Bridge, she momentarily found herself in the car-pool lane limited to cars carrying at least three passengers. Looking for the exact-change tollbooth, she switched lanes.
A Port Authority police officer was checking to see if non-car-poolers had encroached on the car-pool lane. Apparently, the officer regarded Mrs. Walbridge's swerving maneuver after he had loomed into her view as a self-incriminating reflex by which the guilty mind reveals itself.
He signaled her to stop and asked for her documents. Mrs. Walbridge, who had never had a ticket in 25 years of driving, gave him her license, registration and proof of insurance. Now, more than two months later, she recalls how the officer pointed out that her insurance card showed that the policy had lapsed six days earlier.
Her husband told the officer that he had renewed the policy but that the new card had not yet arrived. He looked in his briefcase for a check stub to show he had made the payment. Mrs. Walbridge said the policeman told her husband, "Pull your hand out of there very slowly." She looked to see if he was smiling. He wasn't.
The officer, apparently a student of the "Alice's Restaurant" school of police work, ordered her out of the car and, pressing her hands behind her back, handcuffed them tightly. Several other policemen came to escort Mrs. Walbridge to the police station by the bridge. One told her that they had to handcuff her because there was no female officer to frisk her and see "if she was secreting anything on her body."
She was upset and crying and the cuffs were digging into her wrists. She recalls that she momentarily misunderstood and had the horrifying thought that the police were concerned with her bodily secretions.

Phil Blampied

Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-08-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Phil Blampied on Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:38 am

Airport police kill lady to prevent frivolous lawsuits by black men

The daughter-in-law of one of New York's top officials screamed, "I'm not a terrorist!" and fought with security officials in the Phoenix airport before being wrestled to the ground and handcuffed, witnesses told the Daily News yesterday.
Carol Anne Gotbaum, 45 (pictured) of the upper West Side, died less than an hour later, after cops claim she apparently strangled herself while trying to escape from the handcuffs in a holding cell at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.
"I'm not a terrorist! I'm a sick mom! I need help!" yelled the mother of three after she missed the 2:58 p.m. US Airways Express flight to Tucson, said airport workers who witnessed the confrontation Friday.
They said one cop put his knee in her back to restrain her while others grabbed her flailing arms.

Phil Blampied

Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-08-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Timeout on Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:55 am

Phil - you forgot to print the rest of the story...

The daughter-in-law of city Public Advocate Betsy Gotbaum frantically dialed home when Phoenix ticket agents refused to let her board a flight to a stint in alcohol rehab.

"They are not letting me on! It's all falling apart," Carol Anne Gotbaum told her husband, Noah, before she dropped the phone at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, witnesses said.
Noah Gotbaum called back, desperately trying to persuade the U.S. Airways Express agent to calm his wife and let the mother of three board the plane for the $42,000-a-month Cottonwood de Tucson rehab program, friends and witnesses said.
"It will be okay. She just needs to take her medication. ... She hasn't taken it today," an airline worker said Noah Gotbaum begged. His wife was taking prescriptions for anxiety and depression, sources said.
The airline agent called Phoenix police, who soon grappled with and cuffed the distraught 45-year-old, then shackled her to a bench in an airport holding area Friday.
Less than an hour later, Carol Anne Gotbaum was dead, apparently strangled by the 16-inch chain used to hook her handcuffs to the bench.
Cops say she appeared to have gotten tangled up trying to shift the cuffs from back to front.
Gotbaum's family has hired famed forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht to perform a second autopsy after the official one conducted yesterday. No cause of death was released pending toxicology reports.
After about three years of trouble with alcohol, Gotbaum, who was married to a son of longtime New York labor leader Victor Gotbaum and his former wife, had agreed the day before to enroll in the month-long Cottonwood program.
Others familiar with Carol Anne Gotbaum's history said she had longstanding mental health issues. Gotbaum attempted suicide twice in the past year, they said. She had also tried a brief detox program last fall at Manhattan's St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital, but it did not work.
Gotbaum was sober on the flight from Manhattan to Phoenix, but a friend who was supposed to meet her at the terminal for the last leg to Tucson failed to show, sources said.
She had lunch solo at the terminal, got drunk and didn't hear her connecting flight being called for Tucson, airline workers said.
She was jittery as she went through security and was pulled aside to be patted down, a witness said. Gotbaum said, "I have to get my flight. I'm late for my flight," the witness said.
She arrived at the gate just eight minutes before the plane was supposed to leave and was turned away.
Phoenix police said they soon had to subdue the distraught woman, whom witnesses heard shout, "I'm not a terrorist! I'm a sick mom!"
Gotbaum family lawyer Michael Manning of Phoenix said she could have been unsupervised as long as 30 minutes. A police spokesman said she was unsupervised no more than five to 10 minutes in the holding cell.
Family members were racked with guilt for letting her travel alone, sources said.
avatar
Timeout

Number of posts : 829
Registration date : 2008-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Timeout on Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:01 am

For the previous story about the guy opening his briefcase at a police stop...I may not be the sharpest crayon in the box, but I would know better than to do something stupid like that...c'mon, use a little common sense.
avatar
Timeout

Number of posts : 829
Registration date : 2008-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Timeout on Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:15 am

I've been accused of being a "cheerleader" for fire and police, but how about that I look at the glass being half full instead of half empty...I know, weird concept.

Instead of looking for everything that's wrong, how about looking at what's right here? For instance, local area police finding the guns and the people who stole them recently. When I first read about it in the paper, my first fear was that one of those guns could show up at a local school...nothing would surprise me. Thank God (and police) that they were caught.
avatar
Timeout

Number of posts : 829
Registration date : 2008-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Breaking News: Blunt's Economic Developer has Criminal Conviction for Theft

Post by Chuck on Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:16 am

Submitted by Roy Temple on Tue, 07/05/2005 - 10:35am
According to the Missouri Democratic Party:
She's Now in Charge of State's Tax Credits and Business Incentives


Jefferson City, MO --- The person Gov. Matt Blunt put in charge of recruiting new businesses and jobs to Missouri has previously been criminally convicted of theft. As Missouri's Director of Business Development and Trade, Randa A. Hayes oversees millions of dollars in public funds that are used as incentives for businesses to move to Missouri or to expand in the state, as well as the state's international trade offices.


In 1997, Hayes, then going by her maiden name Randa A. Ismail, spent time in jail after being charged in Cook County, Illinois with two felony counts of theft, two felony counts of forgery, and one misdemeanor count of theft. She later reached a plea bargain and pled guilty to misdemeanor theft and paid more than $36,000 in restitution. http://www.firedupmissouri.com/node/1949
At times there are issues with Economic Developers ripping people off. I guess it's just a general systemic problem with economic development people, right Phil?

Phil, I thought you're comment about the police in town murdering someone was ignorant. I didn't expect that from you.
avatar
Chuck

Number of posts : 73
Registration date : 2008-06-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Timeout on Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:20 am

Nice post Chuck...wasn't there some guy in Lisbon in Economic Development who did this too? Not sure...
avatar
Timeout

Number of posts : 829
Registration date : 2008-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Timeout on Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:25 am

Ah, here it is:

Ex-Lisbon official charged with stealing from town

By Lindsay Tice , Staff Writer
Friday, April 11, 2008
PHOTO GALLERY
« Previous | Next »

thumbnails | gallery

LoadPhoto();



LoadRelated();



A grand jury has indicted a former Lisbon economic development director on a charge of stealing more than $32,000 from the town program he was overseeing.

Daniel J. Feeney, 56, of North Yarmouth, served as economic development chief for 18 years and ran the town's Community Development Block Grant program, which provides grants to low-income homeowners and low-interest loans to needy Lisbon businesses. Feeney resigned in April 2007 to take a job as economic development director in Topsham.

Police say just before Feeney left, he gave $32,500 in CDBG money to Atlantic Commercial Cleaners, a phony business whose listed address was a commercial building at 679 Lisbon St., or Route 196, in Lisbon Falls. The building, which has a garage in the back that is rented for car storage, is owned by Peter Stenberg, who knew nothing about the phony company or the use of his address, police Chief David Brooks said.

Feeney listed himself as a co-owner of the phony business, he said.

"He took the check and supposedly left the building with it and was to hand deliver it to the party," said Brooks, who was serving as interim town manager last year when Jennifer Stowell Norris, Feeney's replacement, discovered problems with Atlantic Commercial Cleaners' CDBG paperwork.

According to Brooks, investigators found Feeney did not tell the town attorney or town council about the loan, as was protocol. They also found that a chunk of the $32,500 was used to buy a soda blaster from Texas, and that soda blaster - equipment that strips paint and cleans surfaces - was then sold to someone else for $19,000.

Investigators don't know where that $19,000 went, Brooks said.

An Androscoggin County Superior Court grand jury indicted Feeney this week on a charge of theft, a class B felony that carries a five- to 10-year prison sentence.

Feeney declined to comment, referring all questions to his lawyer, Tom Marjerison.

Marjerison said the state made a mistake in charging his client.

"The allegations are not true. Mr. Feeney is going to clear his name through a jury trial," he said.


Curtis Lunt, who worked with Feeney for 15 years and was Lisbon town manager when Feeney resigned last April, was surprised to learn of the theft charges Thursday. He said he always found Feeney to be trustworthy.

"I'll be both shocked and disappointed if it's true," he said.

Investigators believe someone else - a person not connected to the town - was also involved in the theft, though no one else has been indicted, Brooks said.

The Androscoggin County District Attorney could not be reached for comment Thursday.

Feeney resigned from his job in Topsham less than a month after taking the position. It is unclear where he is working now.
avatar
Timeout

Number of posts : 829
Registration date : 2008-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Phil Blampied on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:04 am

You are skittering all over the landscape of illogic. There is no nationwide training for Economic Developers, and I am not a hired economic developer. I have no control over funds. There is no systemic problem with the training of economic developers as there is, basically, no particular training. And of course, you are, in essence, coming at me personally which is a good sign that you know that, on the facts, you have no ground on which to stand.

Those who don't think there is a problem with the current training of police are part of the problem themselves.

In the 1950's, it was the proud boast of flag-draped patriots that America was not a country in which you had to fear a knock on the door in the middle of the night.

Today, it is becoming a country in which you have to fear a knock on the door in the middle of the night.

In June, 2004, John Noakes, age 73, and his wife Mary Anne, age 71, were listening to music in their Montauk, NY house around 9 pm. The neighbors thought the music too loud, but rather than ask the Noakes to turn it down, they immediately called the police.

The police responded and, when Mr. Noakes opened the door, he must have reacted as most people would react, with annoyance, which was sufficient to cause the police (of whom there were several) to wrench Mr. Noakes' arm, breaking his elbow, and handcuff him, with the broken elbow. When his wife, upset, came down to protest, she too was handcuffed and arrested. They were both hauled off to jail. Neither had a previous criminal record and both were relatively frail.

They were subsequently awarded $40,000 in damages as a result of the police action.

If you don't care about your civil rights, perhaps you care about your tax dollars.

Phil Blampied

Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-08-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Phil Blampied on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:11 am

Must be them rascally economic developers
There’s 8-year-old Hamadi Alston (search) of New Jersey, who was put in a jail cell in 2003 for five hours for using an L-shaped piece of paper he found in a book as a play gun in the schoolyard. There have been numerous reports of people — even children — being arrested and detained with handcuffs for eating in Washington, D.C., subway stations.
Schoolteacher Hope Clarke was hauled off a cruise ship in 2003 allegedly for not paying a fine for leaving marshmallows at a Yellowstone National Park campsite. After being detained for 10 hours, she was taken into shackles before a judge, who by that time acknowledged she really did pay the fine

Phil Blampied

Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-08-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by who? on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:21 am

There is no systemic problem with the training of economic developers as there is, basically, no particular training.

That clears up a lot, “no training” go figure why there are a bunch of flunkies in it.

who?

Number of posts : 44
Registration date : 2009-01-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Timeout on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:42 am

Phil, it's hard to tell just who is "skittering all over the landscape of illogic", although I still admire your colorful language choices...

The point is, as you well know, is that it is in fact illogical to assign certain attributes to a particular group. I thought it was funny and also quite exaggerated to make a point about Economic Developers.

Of course it's off topic, but I'm okay with police who check out kids who have or pretend to have guns at school. Guess it depends whether your own kids are in the school or not.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090311/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_school_attack


Last edited by Timeout on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Timeout

Number of posts : 829
Registration date : 2008-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Phil Blampied on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:42 am

Actually, one of the warnings I have been sounding, and been ignored about, is the risk of hiring a high-priced economic developer. I doubt the town could get a $1000 a week of value from the usual kind of people applying for that kind of job, and yet that's the going rate. That's why we've been trying to figure out how to do it low cost or volunteer.

Phil Blampied

Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-08-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Timeout on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:43 am

Phil, that was not the point - it was used as a counter exaggeration to what I believe some view as an exaggerated view on your part. No need to defend yourself.
avatar
Timeout

Number of posts : 829
Registration date : 2008-06-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Phil Blampied on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:45 am

Citizen again forces police to reluctantly use handcuffs
In August Matthew Shinnick sold a pair of bikes on Craig's list for $600. After shipping the bikes, he received a check for $2000, not $600. The buyer explained that the extra money was for shipping costs and for his "trouble."
Shinnick was suspicious, so when he went to a San Francisco branch of Bank of America to cash the check (which was drawn on a Bank of America check), but expressed concern that the check might not be good. He asked the teller to find out before cashing it.
"The teller contacted the business and was informed that no check had been written to Shinnick for $2,000 or any other amount. She immediately passed the check to the branch manager. "I saw him talking on the phone and staring at me," Shinnick said. "A few minutes later, four SFPD officers came into the bank. They didn't say a thing. They just kicked my legs apart and handcuffed me behind my back." The police report for Shinnick's arrest says he was taken into custody "for the safety of the bank employees as well as the bank customers." -- SFGate
Shinnick was hauled to jail, stripped of his clothing and put into an orange jumpsuit. His father posted $4,500 bond to spring him. Shinnick ended up spending $14,000 to get out of the mess Bank of America caused.

Stay tuned as Timeout explains why Shinnick deserved this treatment ...

Phil Blampied

Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-08-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by who? on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:54 am

Yeah,

If the guy was a criminal he would have just told him!LOL No need to take precautions.

who?

Number of posts : 44
Registration date : 2009-01-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by who? on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:56 am

Actually we are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy off topic here. Maybe Phil would like to start a cop bashing thread in memory of his fellow ED, JSN.

who?

Number of posts : 44
Registration date : 2009-01-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Phil Blampied on Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:58 am

I could post another hundred examples. What are the common elements?
- a regular citizen, not a criminal;
- usually a person who, by common sense, can be seen to present no immediate risk to the officers or the bystanders;
- a minor infraction or no infraction but just a suspicion
- the immediate application of overwhelming force by the police without regard to civil rights or even the most effective strategy for calming or resolving the problem.

Here's the lesson: anyone can now be treated like this. This is our first baby steps into a new country, the Police States of America.

Longer steps will follow.

I am not attacking police officers personally. They are behaving according to the current standards of police training. The problem is not the people in the police force, it is:
a) training which emphasizes immediate domination of the situation;
b) training which excludes certain common sense decisions;
c) training which minimizes the need for officers to respect civil liberties except as required to win a court case.
d) training which doesn't emphasize that officers should "protect and serve" even the people who may be the subjects of police action.

Another problem, longer posts, is the huge, growing volume of laws which restrict personal behavior ...

Phil Blampied

Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-08-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Phil Blampied on Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:05 pm

Cop bashing.

If you criticize police practices, you are cop bashing.

Should put cop bashers in jail or something. We must not allow criticism of the state or its agents.

By the way, I noted in an earlier post that some of you have complained to the Rumford police about JSN. I certainly don't agree with her (especially when she attacks me) but if you think you can get people arrested for exercising their first amendent rights, you are a perfect example of what I mean that those who don't think there is a problem are part of that problem.

Phil Blampied

Number of posts : 117
Registration date : 2008-08-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Bethel Train wreck

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum